episode, it is that part of treasuring our leaders is recognizing that they are as human and as flawed as we are. thanks so much for watching. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. sticking it! let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening i'm chris matthews back in washington. let me start with this. think a second, think if this election had gone the other way. john boldin, not susan rice, would be the hot talk for secretary of state. war clouds would be overhead and the bugles blaring would be marching. just think self-deportation would be the name of the game for immigration. voter suppression would be the toast of the town, or certain parts of town. the extinction of health care would be hr-1, up there on the

front burner for congressional action. just think, if the election had gone the other way the rich would be basking in the best tax protection known to man, a real-life, genuine mandate to leave them and their money alone. but a funny thing happened on the way to the white house. people voted for tax fairness. they voted to make the rich pay their share, specifically voted that way for one thing because the republicans kept warning them not to. and so it came to pass today that president obama said just that at his press conference. give the middle class their tax cuts, speaker boehner. cut it loose so they can go christmas shopping, senator mcconnell. the it's what the people voted. that's why they voted for me. that's the president talking. joined by chuck todd. thanks for joining us tonight. this was a hot pressure cooker press conference and you were in the middle. let's talk about the president's tactic. it looks like he's got one. here he is sticking out his message of defending the middle class today, sticking to it. he practically dared the republicans to hold tax cuts for the middle class hostage.

he went back to that word hostage. let's take a look. >> the other option is to pass a law right now that would prevent any tax hike whatsoever on the first $250,000 of everybody's income. i hope republicans in the house come on board, too. we should not hold the middle class hostage while we debate tax cuts for the wealthy. the most important step we can take right now, i think the foundation for a deal that helps the economy, creates jobs, gives consumersty, which means gives consumers confidence they'll have consumers during the holiday season if we right away say 98% of mrnz aren't going to see their taxes go up. >> i thought that was pretty well crafted as a tactic. i don't know if it's a strategy. basically saying, republicans, we're going to put a lot of pressure on you because middle class, 97% of the country want those tax cuts kept, they to want keep them, go holiday shopping. don't use the rich people and

their purposes as an excuse to screw the middle class. >> reporter: that's right. look, the one thing the president did do is he did leave himself a tiny bit of wiggle room for republicans to say, hey, i'm willing to listen to a compromise if you don't want to just move all of the bush tax rates up to the clinton tax rates, essentially, from 35% to 39%. obviously, the president was making his case, hey, that bill, it passed the senate. it's sitting there. if the house passes it, then we've passed the tax rates for the 98%. then have you this other debate. he left himself -- what was interesting there, when i pressed him about, is this a red line, are you not going to support any deal that doesn't raise tax rates on the wealthy and he stopped short of that. >> let's watch that, chuck. let's watch it because it was your question. you asked him, as you just said, if there was room for a deal that didn't include -- did not include a return of the clinton era tax cuts of 39.6% for the wealthy people. here's what the president said in response to you. let's watch.

>> with respect to the tax rates, i just want to emphasize, i am open to new ideas. if the republican counterparts or some democrats have a great idea for us to raise revenue, maintain progressivety, make sure the middle class isn't getting hit, reduces our deficit, encourages growth, i'm not going to just slam the door in their face. >> chuck, you're sharp as hell on this but let me suggest another interpretation. he went in there with one goal, like ronald reagan used to do, i want one headline, don't let the middle class be held hostage. he repeated it over and over again. >> reporter: he said it 19 times. >> he didn't want the headline to be switched by adversarial press or neutral press that didn't to want go with his line to say him, adamantings president adamant on rich paying 39.6%. maybe that's why you softened up to you. just an interpretation. >> reporter: i can tell you congressional republicans were

happy with his response. they like to know there is some give. here's where the give could be, chris. nobody's talked about this. i mean, there's been some behind the scenes chatter on this, which is you could see tax rates temporarily go up just not all the way to 39%. it could be somewhere in the middle. ends up being the compromise for the one year. don't forget, this is all about setting the tax rates simply for 2013, while they negotiate larger tax reform. so, that could be what the wiggle room is. obviously, republicans have said they don't want to raise tax rates at all. they're fine with revenue. and the president's sitting there saying, i'm open to that. i'm open to listening to your ideas. i don't believe the math works without raising rates. well, what's the middle ground? raising tax rates halfway in between 35% and 39%. i'm just saying, that's where you can find the middle ground, the wiggle room, the potential as a way of giving -- the republicans are looking for an out on this. they need some sort of out. they know they're not going to win the fight simply on no raising of tax rates at all.

but i think they want to feel as if there is some give there. and the president at least for now reer to to reer toicly -- >> john boehner is listening to the future, he's listening to his party -- >> reporter: they want a deal. >> they want a deal. do you think the republicans are listening to the brains out like this like kristol and other thinkers, do you think they're willing to say we've been to prejudice to the rich. is that foreseeable? >> reporter: here's what i can tell you. when you talk to leadership and do reporting on that, they want a deal. they're ready for a deal. and they're not that far off. the problem is, can you find a minimum -- let's just say a minimum of 35 house republicans who can commit themselves to voting for a raise of tax rates. it would be and could be primary

suicide for those 35 republicans. because we know these gerry man der districts. that's the problem boehner had. if boehner had 35 safe republicans, safe from a primary challenge, safe from somebody from the right on taxes, i think this deal would have happened even a lot sooner. they might have gone ahead and passed parts of -- most of that bill that came through the senate. >> they have to schedule -- the thing about leadership is they have to schedule a bill. that's the tricky part. let's take a look at this. a very interesting moment in the press conference today, extremely interesting when president obama was asked about comments from his former opponent, john mccain, who made some nasty comments about susan rice, the united states ambassador to the u.n. and she may well be the head of the state department soon. here's the president responding in a very personal way. i thought this was really a moment here. >> let me say specifically about susan rice. she has done exemlary work.

she has represented the united states and united nations with skill and professionalism and toughness and great. if senator mccain and senator graham and others want to go after somebody, they should go after me. when they go after the u.n. ambassador, apparently because they think she's an easy target, then they've got a problem with me. and should i choose -- if i think that she would be the best person to serve america in the capacity -- the state department, then i will nominate her. that's not a determination i've made yet. >> why don't you be our u.n. interpreter right now and explain all the elements of that amazing response. it was personal, poignant, emotional, also careful because he said i may not make her the united states secretary of state but i don't want her to get the idea or anybody in the world to get the idea f i don't give her the job it's because of benghazi in that statement. >> reporter: absolutely right.

here's the thing. this has bothered the white house for weeks. the idea that susan rice is taking the fall, taking these attacks, particularly from john mccain and lindsey graham, because all she was doing, she had gotten the same intelligence briefing that members of congress did, republicans and democrats, that david petraeus signed off on, the director of cia wrote the assessment, that's what she was doing. there are people in the white house, particularly the president, but a lot of support staff feel as if susan rice has gotten a raw deal on this. that she has been a political punching bag, if you will, over the last month and a half because of the presidential campaign, because of other things. so, this point when mccain and graham did their thing, that's why the president felt he needed to stand up for his u.n. ambassador. there's -- obviously he was giving off an indication he's willing to have a confirmation fight if they want to have one. but there's more to this chris.

there's more to this. this goes back to mccain and obama, they never -- they never had a warm relationship after the 2008 election. mccain, i think, has been tougher on the president than in the reverse. the president has sort of not taken the bait when mccain has hit him and hit him pretty hard. and i think this was an indication the president is ready to sort of fight back when it comes to mccain. this is not a good relationship. let's not pretend it ever has a chance of being one. >> you know what it reminds me of? the way nixon could never deal with the fact kennedy was beloved and he tried to smear his reputation from bay of pigs. he was digging for jewels over the cia. >> reporter: it's always been personal. i tell you, it feels like it's personal with mccain. i don't know if it was ever personal before with the president. now it actually feels like it might be. personal with the president, too. it's just -- it's just one of those, just like kennedy -- >> i understand. we can figure these things out. thanks, chuck.

chuck todd at the white house. now joining us is u.s. congressman james clyburn from south carolina, member of the house leadership. let's talk about the real politics of equity, fairness, real democratic values, congressman. you're in the leadership. you're going to make the call. does the president have to win -- i think he has to -- does he have to win on making sure the wealthy of this country get back to paying what they paid under clinton? >> absolutely. he's just absolutely got to win that. and i think he will win that. but let me say, chris, thank you so much for having me. may i say something about susan rice? >> sure. >> i have a real, real problem with my senior senator trying to make her a scapegoat in this. susan rice's roots are in florence, south carolina, that i got the opportunity to serve for almost 20 years in the congress. her father, who -- emitt, born in florence, didn't leave there

until he was 16 years old, i've been a close friend of his over the years. i'm a close friend of susan rice. i think it's absolutely a shame for this young lady's whose roots are deep in south carolina soil to get treated like this by my senior senator. >> let's talk about motive here. even if you think a person made a mistake, they were given the wrong brief, they don't think -- they haven't said she made it up. why is this hostility to this young public servant who isn't much -- who isn't a politician even. she serves in foreign affairs capacity. she isn't in the arena with you guys. why are they treating her like someone to punch? >> this young african-american woman, i'm going to say. this is the kind of stuff that happened to colin powell. he was given information. he went to the united nations with information we found out later was flawed. it was not his fault then -- >> well, i think he's still mad

about that. i think colin powell is still angry about the crap they gave him, so to speak. that's my feeling. of course i like him. >> i do, too. and i think susan rice is getting a raw deal here. now, back to -- >> let's talk taxes and the middle class and how the president. it seems this president was crystal clear on looking out for the middle class. if you're rich, have you to pay a little more. those are the stakes. on election night. he's claiming them now. >> that's exactly right. that's exactly right. he campaigned on the issues that he's laid before the american people. he's talked about $1.6 trillion in revenues. i think mr. boehner's now talking about $800 billion, somewhere in between that we ought to get to -- and i do believe that the president is in a very good place on this issue. i think the american people have demonstrated with their votes and they continue to demonstrate

with all the comment i've heard that the president is where the american people like for him to be on this issue. middle income americans have given a lot. and they have given and given and given. just look at this war -- or these wars we have fought. basically the people fighting in these wars, they have come from middle income america. we are talking about people who seem not to have a vested interest in all of the sacrifices that are being made to get our economy back on track. so, the president is right where the american people like for him to be. and i hope and i feel that he will hold the line on these issues. >> it's great to have you on, sir. such a great man. i mean that. every time i hear you talk, i say, yes, yes, yes. congressman james clyburn, one of the leaders in the house of representatives. thank you for coming on. >> thank you for having me. coming up, notes on a scandal, the e-mails, the letters, if you really have to hold your ear -- i don't think you will, by the way. this is getting fascinating. the phone call now, the photo,

new developments all around this crazy david petraeus story involving our top general in afghanistan, most recent head in the cia, all involved in this strange quartet of relationships. liberals being liberals. how about no don't ask don't tell about being a liberal. five true blue liberals have been re-elected to the united states senate and they don't hide their colors. that's changed. the dog whistle. it's still whistling out there. listen to the co-chairs of mitt romney's wisconsin campaign saying he would have won that state if voter i.d. laws were intact. by the way, president obama won wisconsin by 205,000 votes. are they saying 205,000 votes were stolen? what are they talking about out there? are they admitting what we all know republican voter i.d. laws were an effort to suppression the minority vote and failed?

tough luck. here's the spokesman for the american family association on why latinos vote for democrats. >> it has to do with the fact that they are socialists by nature. they come from mexico, which is a socialist country. >> yeah, people are basically intrinsically idea logical. i've never heard that. that will win a lot of hispanic votes, telling people there's something wrong with their political dna. into their work, their name on the door, and their heart into their community. small business saturday is a day to show our support. a day to shop at stores owned by our friends and neighbors. and do our part for the businesses that do so much for us. on november 24th, let's get out and shop small.

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welcome back to "hardball." the president answered questions today at his press conference for the first time on the scandal that has forced the resignation of his cia director. it took time to offer strong praise, by the way, he did, for petraeus. listen to how well he praises this guy that's just been forced to resign. i wanted to know why he did it, but first let's hear it. >> general petraeus had an extraordinary career. he served this country with great distinction, in iraq, in afghanistan, and as head of the cia. i want to emphasize that from my perspective at least, he has provided this country an extraordinary service. we are safer because of the work that dave petraeus has done. and my main hope right now is that he and his family are able to move on and that this ends up

being a single side note on what has otherwise been an extraordinary career. >> well, we know so far is that david petraeus, the general had an affair with his biography, paula broadwell that came to light after the fbi began investigating harassing e-mails sent to jill kelley, a socialite in tampa. the fbi found out it was broadwell sending those e-mails. according to the washington post, the e-mail described kelley as a seductress. for more on where things stand we're joined by chief white house correspondent -- mike isikoff, and of course we've got david corn, who's on the show now from mother jones. let me talk about this, first of all. i think it was interesting of the president to give almost a complete snow white description

of this guy. he referred to the affair, which is the reason he's being removed from office, as a single side note. i mean, bill clinton went through -- >> yeah, yeah. >> this guy get a single side note. >> just a pesky asterisk. but, you know, politicians and presidents for years in washington have been using david petraeus as cover. if you can get underneath -- >> republicans said that name over and over. >> wrap yourself in the petraeus flag and you got immunity from almost anything. >> what is president obama worried about petraeus? >> i think it's -- i think he's being gracious now. i think maybe buyer's remorse, some people once you get into the details of this whacky situation, they're thinking maybe he should have stuck with him, maybe everything moved too fast, maybe he's -- he did what he did but maybe he's the victim -- >> before you jump to that, and i am -- the older i get the more leaning i get towards these -- >> meaning --

>> if it got out he had this affair with the reporter and also got out that the president knowing about it had kept him in office, what would that have been like? >> that would have been bad. the only way you can do this is if you make a clean breast of it, say you're sorry -- >> tell the country that? >> tell the country. it's what bill clinton did. >> but he was impeached. >> under a little pressure. >> let's go to the latest developments in this. mrs. kelley, jill kelley, she's married, she was the one involved in being apparently -- she was scaring this other woman who was having the affair with petraeus. she complained to an fbi agent. this is where it became official. complained, jill kelley, complained to an fbi agent -- >> who was a friend of hers. >> who was being harassed. then she does this call. she called 911 one week complaining, that was jill kelley, tried to invoke diplomatic privilege to get the press off her lawn. let's listen to this. this is a little strange. >> i am an honorary

consul-general, so i have inviolatability so they should not be to cross my property. i don't know if you want to get diplomatic protection involved as well? >> this is getting more indicka more every day. >> that phone call replaced -- >> was she writing, claiming diplomatic immunity from the press? >> no. she had a badge from mcdill air force base, which was -- >> consul for -- >> honorary consul. >> give it to me. >> look. we got a briefing from a source close to jill kelley this evening that sheds a little light on the origins of this and how this came about.

the initial e-mail that triggers the concern comes from an anonymous e-mail from a kelley to general allen in afghanistan, warning him about his relation -- about his relationship with jill kelley and about an upcoming meeting they are going to have in washington. which, in fact, they were going to have. jill kelley and her husband were going to have with general allen. she -- general allen then turns that over to both jill kelley saying, what's this all about? did you send me this? what are you talking about? >> why is she an object of suspicious, because she has lebanese background or what? why are people buzzing around her and bothering her in these personal relationships? >> we don't know what set paula broadwell off, but we understand a little more about what it was that triggered the concern of jill kelley, of general allen and the fbi. because they're talking about something that is not publicly known, the general in

afghanistan is going to have a meeting with a woman in tampa. and then subsequent e-mails, about three or four more along the same lines about a meeting -- >> i want to ask you my favorite question in journalism and i want a quick answer. so what? the whole thing about so what? is there anything about national security in this? >> at the end of the day, probably not. but at the time when here is somebody, an anonymous person on the internet who knows the comings and goings of the cia director that's not public -- >> is john allen going to remain our commander in afghanistan? >> i think it depends on how inappropriate these e-mails -- >> 30,000 pages. >> it's not actually 30,000. it's a lot less than that because of the way they count. they say hundreds of e-mails. >> but pages. >> because of threads, it's kind of technically complicated. hundreds of e-mails. we don't know exactly what he said. if he was just flirtatious with this woman and still commanding a war and doing a good job, why would you bounce him because of that? >> a source close to kelley

characterized those e-mails this evening, saying, first of all, there's a handful that are problematic, that some might consider flirtatious, some might consider inappropriate, that maybe general allen had a glass of wine more than he should have, but not overtly sexual. not sexting. make of that what you will, but i'm just saying what -- >> your so what question is important. what happened here is the fbi got this tip, started looking and things sort of cascade from there. once you bring in the fbi and -- >> can i ask you about -- last question. i hear from progressives, they call me, e-mail me, talk to me. there's some suspicion on the part of a friend of mine, this is the fbi, a political point of view, he brought this up to members of congress, he brought if to hand because he wanted to hurt the administration. >> i don't know if it was political. he wanted time with jill kelley --

>> that does not conform with the facts as we know it. >> you have to follow these leads. thank you michael isikoff and david corn. not every road leads to heaven. jon stewart has something to say about those petitions, by the way, asking certain states be allowed to secede. what a waste of paper. that's ahead. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ knock on door ] cool. you found it. wow. nice place. yeah. [ chuckles ] the family thinks i'm out shipping these. smooth move. you used priority mail flat rate boxes. if it fits, it ships for a low, flat rate. paid for postage online and arranged a free pickup.

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back to "hardball" now in the "side show." yesterday i told you about the angry petitions to the white house asking that certain states be allowed to secede from the union now that president obama was re-elected. texas was the leader of the pack with one petition counting 70,000 signatures by yesterday afternoon. jon stewart weighed in. >> i think i can best express how i feel about these states and people in the words of the

great william wonka. >> stop doing. come back. >> at least now i'm beginning to understand why southern states were so hesitant to get rid of the confederate flag. it's like keeping your fat pants after you lose some weight. you're happy for now with the new you, but pretty soon you're going to need those fat pants again! peedz. >> oh -- >> then there's the issue of the latino vote which many republicans say they need if they have any hope of winning back the white house. listen to brian fisher, spokesman for conservative american family association they call themselves and you realize why the gop's problems with latinos run very deep. listen to this guy. >> hispanics are not democrats, don't vote democrat because of immigration. that's not the main reason why they vote for democrats.

it has to do with the fact that they are socialists by nature. they come from mexico. which is a socialist country. they want big government goodies. it's primarily about that. now, they want open borders, make no mistake because they have family and friends they want to come and be able to benefit from the plunder of the wealth of the united states just as they have been able to do. there is no way on earth you're going to get them to leave the democratic party. it's one of the reasons we have to clamp down on immigration. >> it's that kind of talk that will keep the gop losing elections for a generation. up next, what did paul ryan mean when he blamed president obama's victory last week on the urban vote. is he blowing that dog whistle again? this sh "hardball," the place for politics. of their own futur. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want.

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i'm hampton payour cnbc mar. the dow sliding 185 points. the s&p drops 19. the nasdaq falls 37 points. oil prices jump more than 1% after israel launched an operation against militants in benghazi, killing hamas's military chief. as for the economy, the retail sales fell in october, first decline in three months. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." do you think photo i.d. would have made any difference? the outcome of this election? >> yes, i think so. we're looking at all sorts of

different precincts and all sorts of same-day registrations. people will go on, we don't have fraud and abuse in our election, but why couldn't we have voter i.d. when majority of our people in wisconsin want it, the governor signed it. why should one judge be able to hold it up? >> there you have the problem with the republican party. pay a lot of attention to that what that woman just said, senate senator. that's the state -- state senator wisconsin, i don't know her, served as mitt romney's co-chair in the state and now she's saying suppressing the voter i.d. cards would have made the difference in wisconsin. let's look at the facts. apparently she's not interested in the fact. obama won wis we by 205,000 votes. 200,000 votes plus. she's saying there that that was staled, the democrats stalled. poor people came in the state, they stole over 200,000 votes. that's her claim because there weren't foeter voter i.d. requirements.

paul ryan -- there's more of this dog whistle crap going on. paul ryan expressing his surprise that the pro-obama turnout in an interview monday, two days ago, well after the election, they're still talking like this. let's listen to ryan here. >> i'm surprised with the outcome. we knew this was going to be a close race. we thought we had a very good chance of winning it. i think the surprise was some of the turnout. some of the turnout, essentially in urban areas, which definitely gave president obama the big margin. to win this race. >> well, cynthia tucker, visiting professor of journalism at university of georgia and joan walsh, editor-at-large by salon. the l.a. times just posted a report on mitt romney's conference call today with top donors. it says romney, quote, attributed his rival's victory to, quote, the gifts the obama administration had given to blacks, hispanics and young voters during obama's first

term. obama, romney argued, had been very generous, quotes around it, to blacks, hispanics and young voters. i once heard a canadian election saying they lost election to people that wanted to stay as part of canada because of ethnic voters. this guy, paul ryan who i don't think is right for prime time yet by any means talking about the urban vote. now, they won the other side because they got the most votes. because they won fair and square, which is the first thing ryan said. why do you have to step on his own headline. they won fair and square by saying, oh, it was the black vote. basically, that's what he's saying. >> chris, let me just say, as for romney's comments, i'm still waiting for my gift. i'm waiting for my gift from obama. i haven't received my gift yet. >> where is it? >> maybe it was lost in the mail. >> you may have voted for him without getting that thing in the mail he was supposed to send everybody? >> maybe chris has it. >> i did not get my gift.

let me just say the comments that you have focused on encapsulate the republicans' problems. while pundits have been speculating that republicans have finally learned their lessons, they have to stop being so disrespectful to large blocs of voters. they have not learned. they cannot stop being disrespectful and dismisses ive. this business of urban vote. chris, you're an urban voter. you live in a city, don't you? >> actually, i live two blocks outside a city, but i spent most my life living either in philadelphia or in worcester, massachusetts, in college, which is a city, or in washington, d.c. for many, many years, yes. >> i mean, this is just nonsense. they cannot speak of us as americans, as voters. and we understand that. and that's the reason so many

black and brown people, and so many white voters, by the way, don't vote for the republican party. >> yeah, i think that was well said. i think a lot of white people are turned off by this old style stuff. joanie, my question to you, my dear friend, how do you explain romney, who left the stage with such grace on election night, i'll tribute to that forever the way he did it, now going back over this again saying they bought the minority vote. this is the kind of thing he was saying during the campaign, remember. he was saying, they get rid of work requirement for welfare because he had to pay off his base. the feeding of the base. it's a theme he's still pushing. >> why does he say it, chris? because he really believes it. they really believe this is what it's all about and we've all been paid off. as cynthia says, i'm still waiting for my gifts, too. the thing that irks me to hear the two people from wisconsin speak so dismisses ively about their own population and own state -- i mean, paul ryan lost his own district, his city, his

hometown, which is not a particularly urban place. but i cast -- >> 200,000 vote thieves. 200,000. >> and i cast my first vote for jimmy carter in suburban milwaukee. i went to high school and college in wisconsin. we are proud of our tradition, of broad public participation in the vote, chris. wisconsin -- >> and clean elections, too. >> clean elections. wisconsin and minnesota have the two highest rates of participation. that used to be something to proud of as a wisconsin resident. they are mad because they got their butts kicked by a resurgent democratic party in the state, which outorganized them. that's what it's all about. >> you know, teddy white when he wrong making the president in '66, when you have votes in states like wisconsin and minnesota, you can count on the vote being exactly right. let's go back to cynthia. people out there will say matte matthews, and you sign thea hear that dog whistle when it's not even there. maybe, but when you put it all

together from sununu's loss of lazy, he belongs in kenya, the latest character a few minutes ago. did you hear about the christian right wing guy said mexicans are socialist because it's in their blood because they come from a socialist country. wait a minute. arnold schwarzenegger is from socialist austria. it's the reason he left. it could be they want to live in a country with more freedom and less government. i don't know. a lot of people i grew up with in the united states from polish backgrounds and other backgrounds, they come from that -- ukrainian backgrounds, they want the catholic school, they all came from left wing -- hard left wing communist countries and they're the opposite. this idea you can trace people's ideological dna through their migratory roots is insane. >> it shows how very little they understand their fellow americans and how very little they're trying to understand. you know, chris, what it says to

me, a lot of the nonsense that we heard over the election, the welfare ads and all of, that i thought they put that nonsense out there to satisfy their base. now i'm noting how many of the republican strategists really believe those ugly stereotypes about voters of color. and let me further say, chris, that it isn't just the nonsense we heard in this election. black americans have understood, have heard republicans speak disrespectfully of us for the last 50 years. that's the reason black americans don't vote for the republican party. now for the last five to seven years, latinos have been hearing the same thing. if you continue to talk about us in this stereotypical,

dismissive manner, we get the message. you don't want us in your party. and, of course, we are not going to give you our votes. it's as simple as that. >> i love the way they just say, and i use that sarcastically, well, were your votes stolen or bought? that's a nice debate in the republican party. we can't decide if they bought their votes or stole them? i make it funny because it's horrible. sin sthee yeah, i love your passion and truth. joan, too. the name of your book? >> "what's the matter with white people?" ? >> absent tonight's discussion. no more don't ask don't tell meaning your ideology is out there on your mettle. you can say you're a liberal now and win. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare...

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the democrats didn't run as reluctant democrats using the clinic tone yan trieng galatian to appeal to voters. they ran as full bore liberals. here are some who ran unapologetically on the left side and won. elizabeth warren. tammy baldwin in wisconsin. chris murphy in connecticut and mazie hirono in hawaii. i think it's fascinating in all these years of not being openly liberal saying i'm a moderate, maybe progressive was a euphemism for a while there. what's going on here? i'm looking at -- there is no doubt elizabeth warren will have a high ada rating and will be a liberal. generally these people aren't saying, you know, i'm a moderate, somewhere in the middle.

they are saying we're progressives, liberals, big deal. >> right. i think what's happening is while the republican party had its own implosion figuring out who they were the democrats were kind of humming home getting back to the core of who they were. now you have republicans trying to expand their base, whatever their come to jesus moment is where they try to draw on latinos more. the democrats got back to the core principles that define them as the democratic party. we saw this with the democratic national convention with speeches by deval patrick, president clinton, mayor castro. talking about them as democrats. that's what they are going to b. they are becoming more clear-minded in the mission on the hill now. >> jonathan, what do you think? i think there is such a thing as a democrat now. they are not socialists. somewhere with mixed capitalism, maybe where humphrey was 30, 40 years ago. they are definitely nationalists, not pacifists like

carter was in many ways. nobody will call this president a pacifist. your thoughts? >> howard dean would call it the democratic wing of the chem.ic party. you have all these candidates who believe there is a justice message, a fairness message. remember all the candidates were running with him this year. a lot of them synthesized messages, a little bit to the left or right. obama is coming to the senate and will have more forceful people in place like her pert cole. hirono in hawaii, the same

thing. elizabeth warren in massachusetts for scott brown. what a change from a moderate republican to a liberal, consumer-focused democrat. chris murphy in connecticut doing the same thing replacing joe lieberman. moderate guy. often voted with republicans. chris murphy, not so much. >> i was with michael dukakis teaching at northeastern today. i was there helping to get legal protection for medical situations. he was killed for being a liberal. he's a liberal, that's the end of the argument, you know. >> isn't that part of it? they were apologizing for it all the time. that doesn't really get you anywhere. the important thing though when we talk about what's happening on the hill is you don't have to be a moderate to be a good negotiator. with exceptions like olympia snowe. some of the best negotiators on the hill have been liberals or conservatives. >> that's my speech today. >> ted kennedy, pete domenici, so -- >> my speech is your best kitch constituency is your conscience. you don't have to pretend you're

one of nor quist's robots. thank you, jonathan. we'll have more time next time. when we return, let me finish with what president obama can expect tomorrow when he visits devastated areas in new york city from hurricane sandy. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. what makes the sleep number store different? you walk into a conventional mattress store, it's really not about you. we have so much technology in our store to really show the customers what's going on with their bodies. you can see a little more pressure in the shoulders and in the hips. ... now you can feel what happens as we raise your

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let me finish tonight with this. tomorrow president obama goes to the storm-devastated parts of new york. my protection is he will be

devastated himself by the tragedy that seems to grow worse especially as the temperature drops toward december. i will ask you to take out a pen or pencil and be ready to help yourself with what the president sees tomorrow. i hope he sees the amazing network of people attempting to help the victims on staten isla island, rockaway and breezy point where nearly every family has a police officer, sanitation worker in the family and they continue to suffer through the aftermath of the disaster and the bitter cold without even the basics of human life like heat, water or beds to sleep in. you won't believe how bad it is. people are working to help the victims of sandy and the nor'easter that came in on its heels. there is a church in the bell harbor section of rockaway. st. francis has set up a relief center. doing a huge service to the people there. helping people get access to